We got word from Gary at Brooklyn Streets that there is an upcoming meeting to get out to if you're in support of the F express. (CB6 Transportation Meeting Thursday: Congestion Pricing and 4th Avenue) The CB6 Transportation Committee is meeting this Thursday in Park Slope. Gary is hoping to be there giving each committee member a document on why congestion pricing needs to be balanced with the F/V proposal. It would be great if people who feel passionate about the F express could join Gary at the meeting. Here is the info:
Thursday, September 20th @ 6.30 pm
at Middle School 51, 350 5th Avenue (Park Slope) Auditorium
Briefing by representatives for the Department of Transportation on the Mayor's PlaNYC 2030 Transportation initiatives, which includes a proposed Congestion Pricing pilot program. The Transportation section of the plan can be reviewed in advance and is available at: http://www.nyc.gov/html
Wednesday, September 19, 2007
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26 comments:
there isnt a need for an express as much as there is need for just more frequent service overall...an express train will complicate the situation and result in service CUTS for crowded stations like bergen, carroll, smith, 4th, 15th, and ft hamilton
but i guess that doesnt concern you church ave folk
those stations are not as crowded as 7th and church. Secondly, anyone who lives out beyond Church ave (From Ditmas to Stillwell) would benefit from this too as it would reduce thier commute time. Half the time I catch the train during rush hour it goes express anyways.
7th is a big stop yes, but by the time it gets to church the train is half empty
caroll is by far the most populous
I'm with anon #1. And as someone who uses Fort Hamilton and has done for 7 years, the station is often as crowded as any, including Church and 7th. The days when it wasn't have passed. Better service for all is necessary and we should rally around that, not an express that would benefit the few rather than the masses.
The NYCDOT has nothing to do with F express service. The subways are totaaly under the jurisdiction of the MTA.
Express service would relieve the burden on overcrowded local platforms. (More seats for you guys at Ft Ham!) and you could do what tons and tons of people in NYC do every day...take the local to the nearest express station, walk across the platform and grab the express.
Have any of you been in NY long? This is basic stuff!
NYC born and raised, so no need to go there...ur the one who sounds naive
no, it won't be more seats if there are fewer trains
is the math too confusing for you?
Totally anecdotally, I lived in Carroll Gardens for years and by the time we moved to Kensington in July the F had become unridable from the Carroll station. The trains were PACKED and I often had to let a few go by just to squeeze on. Seat? Fuggetaboutit. I used to just hoof the mile to the 4/5. I never have a problem getting a seat at Ditmas in the morning, and the train really does empty out at Carroll Street on the way home. I'd love an express, just to cut down on my commute time, but so it goes.
no one is talking about fewer trains, 3:29. They're talking about ADDING an express line on the Culver Line.
Seriously, when you get on the C or E train at Spring Street, you can change to the A express at West 4th Street. When you get onto the 6 train at 23rd Street, you can switch to the 4 or 5 at Union Square. Millions of people manage these incredible feats every single day... are Kensingtonians somehow less able to grasp this concept than all these other New Yorkers? When I was 13, I somehow learned to walk across the platform to change from the R to the B at 36th Street. I must have been some kind of subway riding savant!
Not to mention, if an Express full of riders from "outer" Brooklyn (including Church and 7th ave riders) passes your stop, then your local will have more seats. Is THAT math too difficult for you? And if you're supposedly a native, how is it that you've never recognized it's the EXPRESS trains that are jammed. Let's see:
1)More people are in a rush than not
2)Express stops are generally the most populous
3)Express is used TO and FROM local trains.
Are you seriously saying you've NOT observed the 6 empty out at Union Square, or never experienced a comfortable spin on the R Toonerville Trolley?
Frankly, some of you people remind me of the storied Midwestern and Southern people who vote against their best interests when dazzled by the variously fire-breathin' and tax hatin' fake good ol' boys and their neo-con stylists.
Tell me that story again, noisejoke. Bad man say he want to make my train go fast, vroom vroom. Me skerrid.
Yeah, fell off the precipice there, sorry! Choo choo!
There are some very rude posts and this does not help those of you who won't listen to why some of us are opposed to an F-express. It will not mean normal F service for the locals and an additional train for the Church Ave people who are so *rude* here. It will mean trains diverted away from local service so we'll wait longer.
The tracks for the F are not like the A and C. They run on separate tracks throughout most of the system--the F does not.
We can agree service on the F is bad and overcrowded for everybody. If we all band together on that we could do something positive that benefits all of us, not a few at the expense of everyone else. Lobby for the V that uses up cars and track space to go to Church and I'm with you. We need more service whether we live at Church, Fort Hamilton or Carroll St. And as for the person who suggests changing trains, the state of service here isn't reliable enough for people to waste time back and forth. I'm not arguing about shaving a few minutes off some people's commute but giving everyone less of a wait.
thank you 9:09
i dont understand the hatred sometimes...
the whole "i want an F express i i dont care what you think" attitude is getting old
and yes, the DOT has NOTHING to do with train service
Listen up newbies! Here's how the F line is configured. 3 tracks (1 bi-directional express, 2 local) from Avenue X to Ditmas Avenue. 4 tracks (2 express, 2 local) from Church Avenue to Bergen street. Merges down to 2 tracks from Jay Street through to Queens via the 6th Avenue local tracks and the 63rd Street tunnel.
Separate express and local service is possible between Kings Highway and Jay Street. Express and/or local trains can terminate at Church Avenue using the underground storage tracks south of the station. Express and/or local trains can also terminate at Kings Highway.
Local tracks = B1 and B2
Express tracks = B3 and B4
9:09, I guess I was right. Kensingtonians simply have a block on understanding a very simple facet of the subway that somehow millions of other new yorkers get almost instinctively. It's like living on a corridor with only one subway option has somehow blinkered you. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT SERVICE CUTS. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONAL EXPRESS SERVICE.
Laika's rude! I'm offended! I need my ignorance and self-interest confirmed and unchallenged. My needs aren't being met. Boo hoo on my choo chooo. The poor defenseless F train is so sad :(
You urban pioneers want to get the MTA very upset??? Ask them about the unused tunnel between the 2 Ave/Houston on the lower east side and south 4th street in hipster williamsburgh. The center tracks at 2 Ave connect to this sealed off tunnel. [Tunnel also branches off from F under Ft Ham Pkwy to about Dahill Rd. Probably flooded out by now.]
I can understand why an express train is in the best interests of those who live on the express stops, but would you be so enthusiastic if the "local" didn't stop at the express stops? Then you would be in the situation that those of us "local" folk expect to be in: watching F expresses go by while we have to wait for a local. This would be especially frustrating during non-rush hours when even now trains are too often infrequent.
4:23, what you're describing is actually skip-stop service, like there was on the upper west side with the 1 and 9 trains, and people up there seemed to deal with it pretty well.
And again, you wouldn't be barred from taking express trains just because you lived at a local stop. You could take a local train two stops north to 7th Avenue or one stop south to Church from Ft. Hamilton Pkwy, and switch for the express there. This is what millions and millions of people in New York and in other cities with subways and light rail systems all over the world do every single day. For the life of me I cannot understand why some people who live on the culver line have such a block on such a basic mass transit technique.
If it did happen, I'd just walk from Church to my house near Ditmas, and I'd probably still get home faster.
i drive, so its ok if the f runs local
"no one is talking about fewer trains, 3:29. They're talking about ADDING an express line on the Culver Line."
"NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT SERVICE CUTS. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONAL EXPRESS SERVICE."
There are no magical "extra" trains at the MTA. The G train is reduced to 4 cars because the MTA has no more trains. Where do you think the MTA will find the additional cars for an F express? From the local!
Read up on what happened to Astoria when they introduced the W express train. The wait times for a local train doubled because half of the trains were now express. After community pressure, the MTA was forced to scrap the express train.
The most widely talked about plan for the F express involves bringing the V into Brooklyn. In addition, there are new cars sceduled to come online for the bmt & IND, at which point the Culver line would get the old ones. There's your "extra" trains, 11:58
Additionally, if there are, as you claim, no "extra" trains for F express service, there are clearly then no "extra" trains for enhanced or expanded local service either. QED.
"Additionally, if there are, as you claim, no "extra" trains for F express service, there are clearly then no "extra" trains for enhanced or expanded local service either. QED."
I never said that there should be expanded local service, so your point is moot, QED et al. In fact, I take the F daily, and I do not see a problem with it. There are worse lines in the system.
I'll believe the new cars when I see them. The MTA is still years behind on some deliveries from Kawasaki, and those are not for the Culver line. Even with new cars, the bottleneck at Jay St remain, and that is a fact. Without CBTC, you can probably run trains at 4 minutes intervals max, which means a local every 8 minutes and an express every 8 minutes (approximately) during PEAK rush. Can you imagine waiting at 4th Ave that long during peak rush?
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