Logged in a call to David at Kensington Realty re: vacant store at 211 Church Ave. Going rate is $2200 per month for approx. 600 sq. feet. He has another space available at the end of the month (much larger) but wasn't sure about other locations I listed.
LATER
I rang a friend who knows about retail rents and he was amazed at the $44 per square foot cost. He thought for the area prices should be more in the high teens to low 20s per foot and said by comparison commericial rents in lower Manhattan are in the mid 40s. He was also quick to note a specific space in Brooklyn Heights that rented for $46 per sq. ft. I'm left to wonder, was the $2200 the price or just the price I was quoted?
One more comparision, and I have no idea of it's size, but supposedly the old fabric place next to Farm on the A on Cortelyou was going for $3000 and needed a total gut renovation.
Wednesday, April 11, 2007
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26 comments:
"One of the things that I hear a lot from relative newbies in the neighborhood (and yes, I'm included in the newbies) is that they would love some cooler places to eat, shop and drink"
Did it ever occur to the 'newbies' that perhaps the reason there aren't any 'cool' places to hang out is because this is a quiet family-oriented neighborhood.
Do you think the people who have lived here for years don't like to hang out and shop? We jump on the F train; it'll take you to Park Slope, the lower east side, the village, herald square... etc etc.
When you want a nice quiet place to live and raise a family then you move to a quiet neighborhood. This city is huge- full of people; it's nice to come home to a quiet neighborhood (Think small town in a big city). Most 'newbies' grew up in towns and suburbs so you take for granted that peace you can only get outside the city. Kensington, like many other "undiscovered" neighborhoods in Brooklyn, tries to recreate that peace for us natives that never lived in the burbs.
Look how bad the traffic is around Park Slope. One of the things that makes Kensington nice is you can play football in the middle of the street in the summer. Here, most cars driving down the side streets are locals. Most cars driving through park slope are people driving there to go to a nice restaurant (I should know, I do it all the time).
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your blog, I'm a super fan of Kensington, after all I've lived here a long time. I support your call for business improvements on Church Avenue (Why are there 4 nail salons and 3 99cent stores?) A health food store would be nice. I don't like the idea of adding bars, however a nice restaurant would be lovely (it could replace the Italian place scarola's that closed down years ago). 18th avenue has restaurants without going overboard - (does anyone know if the green pavillion is still open? I heard it was replaced with a BBQ place)
I just don't like your vision of turning Kensington into Park Slope, and that's essentially what newbies want to do since they can't afford to move to the Slope.
On another note, I've always heard that the renting a store on Church Avenue was expensive, but I was also shocked at the $2200 price.
The subway stairwell on Albemarle Rd is open again!!!
Btw, Don't you think the pic on your website with the brownstones is kind of misleading since there aren't very many brownstones in Kensington (they seem to all be delegated to that one block)?
Finally, The price of rent quoted in the AM took into consideration all of Kensington, including places close to where the F train is elevated and thus the rents are lower. Places closer to Windsor terrace, and prospect park cost more money to rent.
I don't know that I agree with the notion that the character of the neighborhood would be threatened by having a place or two to have a decent meal, a cup of coffee, or a drink. I think few of the newer residents, me included, envision Kensington as a new Park Slope; instead, having ordinary conveniences nearby (without a car or train trip) would be nice.
Part of having a small town feel is having a "Main Street" -- a place for commerce and socializing. I don't think adding a coffeeshop, some additial restaurant choices, and perhaps a bookstore, a yoga studio, a healthfood store, would compromise the quiet and sleepy nature of the neighborhood. In fact, these amenities can foster community.
miriam,
great post. could not agree more.
I agree that Church ave could use a coffee shop, health food store, cheese shop...
That would certainly not destroy the tranquility of the area.
Who needs a nail salon and a 99 cents store on every block!! Let's change that.
Miriam,
I understand your point, but your tone came accross as a little aggressive. I agree with the other posters that there can be a happy medium. I don' think that many people would want Church Ave to be lined with hip, trendy bars, etc., but a few nice places to eat and shop would benefit the area. I'm not the kind of person who would be good at opening such a place, but I woudl certainly patronize it (as would many of my neighbors).
It amazing that the NIMBY mindset can be so twisted that it would shun decent places to eat and drink. Kensington isn't a suburb, it is an urban neighborhood; it should have at least a couple of decent restaurants. I say this as a lifelong resident and not a newbie.
I think the reason new small businesses do not thrive in our neighborhood is that most Kensington residents I know opt to go to Park Slope for restaurants etc. I think we need to support our existing local businesses for starters. Faro's on Church ave has been getting good reviews. Let's support them and next time you're about to shlep to Park Slope for breakfast, take a walk to Church ave.
I've lived in the hood 10 years or so, and while I don't have any interest in the adderly/farm menu (except for the fries, maybe) and vastly prefer places like El Gavillan and Thai Basil, we could use a few more places that are a step above the chinese-cookingmexican kindof places. I would hope that more affordable, tasty restaurants move in, as well as have foodtown get a make over. Maybe Terrace Bagels could open a Ktown branch? Other than that, pretty content. Don't want it to be the next slope at all. Don't even want it to be the next kensington.
Call me bourgeois - I admit it - but what's wrong with adding a little class to the neighborhood. I'd love to be able to walk to get a good espresso.
Anyway, the way it is now, one can hardly call Kensington a "quiet" neighborhood, esp. on Church and Flatbush Aves.
I'm predicting that Flatbush near us and Church will become a great beautiful shopping area. Now if we can just get rid of the TRUCKS....
As a 7 year resident of Kensington, I find all of this whining for nicer restaurants & stores to have a distinctly classist tone. I love the neighborhood specifically for its working class base and diversity, and do NOT want a coffee shop or healthfood store! I've lived in the gentrifying vortexes of the WB, the LES, etc. and moved here for a reason.
So you might not be surprised that I personally LIKE the 99cent stores and the Bangladeshi and Mexican restaurants, Russian and Polish grocers,etc. These are the places where low-income workers and the diverse residents of K-ton go to make the most of their paychecks, if you haven't noticed.
The bourgeois moralism of the "clean-up" campaign rhetoric exhibited throughout this blog is rather stultifying. It sucks that this is the direction new residents want to move the neighborhood towards...
If new residents want to support Kensington, they should patronize the ethnic businesses that do exist here - the Faros diner just got remodeled, so one can certainly get a morning coffee there. Or go grab a double bagged tea with milk at Jhinuk on Mcdonald and hang out with the locals - they won't bite, and will appreciate your business!
I also get the feeling that 'coffee shop' is elitist code for something else that ties nicely into the 'clean-up' 'campaign. Ultimately it is about displacement- whether it be nail salons, dollar stores, the working class. How long before there is a call to 'clean up' the day laborers on McDonald?
My ideal coffeehouse for this neighborhood:
A place that welcomes EVERYONE in the neighborhood. Basic coffee and tea should not cost more than $1.
The shop should have the word "coffee" posted in Russian, Polish, Bengali, etc. - and NOT as an afterthought - it should be incorporated into the main sign.
In addition to lattes, etc., the cafe would offer foods and drinks that would attract folks from other cultures. Inevitably we'd have to have a large tea selection.
It would also be a space where local merchants of different origins could sell their wears. For example, some neighbors of mine said that a south Asian lady used to sell Shawar Camises (kind of like Saris but made into a shirt and pants) on Curch Avenue. We could attract folks like her to sell things in the cafe!
If some of the "new" people moving in (myself included), incorporate affordability and multiculturalism into their business models, perhaps we have a chance at retaining the character of our beautiful neighborhood, while building community.
If anyone decides to do something like this, please let me know. I will work for you for free as a barista for a couple of hours a week.
I am a classist, and I like really good espresso, fresh french bread, wine and cheese shops. I like to walk down clean streets. This isn't a moralistic point of view, it's a point of view of preference. That's not to say we should "get rid" of anything. I like Roti too.
Anon 5.59
How long before there is a call to 'clean up' the day laborers on McDonald?
All the meetings I've been to the people wanting this have been the 20 and 30 year residents who still use the bank on McD & Church.
dear kensington guy -
all aesthetic & taste preferences are based in class distinction. to say that there is not a moralist coda in wanting more garbage cans, removal of "filthy" graffiti (which will inevitably return!) and clean streets is a gesture of disavowal. what i really take issue with is the self-righteous discussion of "activism" on behalf of quality of life and consumer choices on this blog (goods and services that are a mere 5 mins away via public transport.) i guess the middlebrow
consumer=citizen has arrived to kensington and i should just grin and bear it.
anonymous 5:17
ps- though this may be inadequate for your refined tastes:
wine: STD wines and liquors on church.
cheese: alex's meats, golden farm.
french bread: scotto's on 13th ave.
but is it the actual goods ye seek, or the conferral of bourgeois status that these goods afford?
anon: the essentialist reduction of the poor and working classes into a monolithic group with singular wants and needs is crap…the whole self-aggrandizing mouthpiece-for-the-people shtick is patronizing…go and tell the parents at ps 230 that you’re fighting the good fight for "proletarian" litter and limited shopping and see what the reaction is…and why exactly can’t old and new businesses co-exist? why is it either-or displacement?
While I wouldn't mind a cafe (More Tea Lounge than Starbucks) somewhere on Church, the rest of it is just fine by me.
Golden Farm is probably the best market I could have imagined. I've lived here for two years, and I love it.
I have never had trouble getting things I want or need in Kensington. And heck, if I really want a cafe experience, Vox Pop is a short bike ride away. ::shrug::
I see nothing wrong in asking for good food, clean streets in OUR neighborhood. And sorry, but the gentrification will happen with the arrival of more amenities. It's the natural course of things. I would welcome it entirely. You will still have your gritty spots, believe me. Change happens. If you want nothing to change, the ability to play football in the streets, and a nice drive to the next area for your restaurants, there are many places in Ohio waiting for you.
Sorry to be blunt here, but rather than whine that we don't have a cafe (a coffee shop to native New Yorkers is a greasy spoon, not a Tea Lounge) or a bookstore, or a cheeseshop, why doesn't someone go try and open it themself? Not so easy, eh? I am tired of reading about people who wish this would open or that would open on Church Ave. We should thank the owner of this blog for at least attempting to get information out to us about what it available storefront-wise. Now the kvetchers need to act on this information.
Kensington is one of the most ethnically diverse neighborhoods in the country, if not this city. We can definitely support some new businesses, but as was mentioned earlier, we must also support the businesses that are already here. They are not going anywhere anytime soon, nor are the Bangladeshi, Polish, Albanian, Hassidic, Black, Carribean, Asian, and other families who have purchased homes, built businesses, and are raising their families here.
I, for one, am glad I can buy carpet remnants for a buck or two on Church Ave and can buy a cup of coffee for less than a dollar. Makes my mortgage payment less painful!
If you want the Park Slope experience, it is okay to live there. If you can't afford that, or choose not to, then consider making the necessary adjustments to your life. Don't feel that you have to alter the character of our community because you are a few 100K short of a Slope Town House.
I like Kensington becasue of the nice size houses and the real living space, and the reasonable prices in the stores. If trendy businesses open up on Church, then rents will rise even further. This will cause an increase in prices, which will attract people making higher incomes and drive out the current population. This is exactly what happened in Park Slope about 15 years ago. No thanks.
Do you really think a few changes in retail will make that much of a difference that hasn't already begun - Puh-leaze. Our playground additions, parenting groups etc. are doing just that yet we start them. PS and other places more north are unaffordable but ours are becoming more unafforable too! A retail space or sit down restuarant won't stop the trend so get over it. We have people here who want these things and will create them sooner or later. Don't give me K is affordable and a coffee shop will hurt it we're getting the trickle down and mine as well get on the boat and spend our dollars here.
Some of us moved here because we didn't want to be in Park Slope and deal with the parking issues, high prices, and one-ups-manship. I am not saying sit-down restaurants & certain amenities wouldn't be nice to have around here, but I am also not complaining about the coffee or bagels around here (there are two bagel stores on Church between McDonald and Ocean Parkway!)
There is room for improvement and clean-up in Kensington. But as we should all know (afterall we chose to live here), this is a very nice and safe place to live. I would hate to see Church become 'the next 7th Ave' or 5th Ave for that matter!
PS - to keep prices down, and allow people 'like us' to continue moving in to K-ton perhaps we should all think about selling our co-ops or renting our apartments for under market rates...hmmmm. Or not. This is America, we all want our piece of the pie.
I moved to Kensington a year ago after 20 years in Park Slope. I liked Park Slope 20 years ago, and I love Kensington as it is now. I don't want to live in a neighborhood of style mavens. I love the diversity and the freedom here. I brew my own damn coffee.
i brew my own coffee too, but i think the point is that since church ave is commercially zoned it would be nice to have some quality services... i really don't see the neighborhood getting sucky because a good coffee shop/ bookstore/ wine shop/ bakery opens up.
why do people confuse brownstones with rowhouses?
AYYY! Miriam! Why the hell didn't you and the people like you just move to the damn suburbs!?! I've been here for almost 10 yrs., fending off food poisoning from the "old guard" restaurants that the HEALTH DEPT shut down! I work really, really hard and sometimes I don't feel like cooking my own food or "jumping on a train to Park Slope" and eating the b-movie crap most of them have. I'm tired of people like you who believe in some STUPID little 3rd World Wonderland here, in place forever. The 3rd Worlders and their kids most definitely agree with me. Stop smoking pot and get a life!
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